How could people tolerate a rapist being in such a Nepali conference? Either boycott the conference, where rapists like Ajay Kumar Dev are the members and terrorists like NEPE are giving some talk or, Just thrash these people out of the convention and make the convention enjoyable and knowledgeful. Whats your say guys?

Dance Zone,

The contents of an appeal from Ajay's wife has been widely circulated in emails and other internet sources, obviously seeking maximum public support. I really don't think Peggy would have started the appeal by mentioning her own identity if she really wished to remain anonymous.

Desperation leading to irrationality? (On your part)

I am not sure where to begin here...

1.  His wife never mentions that he admitted to having a sexual relationship in the recorded phone call.

2.  She does not  mention that the birthdate on the passport issue was brought about from her husband or one of his close family members in Nepal. 

3.  She got back to the US by doing exactly what the US Embassy told her to do.  If she had to lie about something to get back in to the US, she did it.  She did what they told her to do and said what they told her to say.

4.  As far as the boyfriend breaking upo with her...  you need to know that she moved out of the Dev home 2 months before and thought she was free of him.  He went and searched out her boyfirends name, address, phone numbers, everything and began contacting him.  He harrassed the boyfriend so much that he finally broke up with her to get Ajay away from himself.  It was the straw that broke the camels back!

5.  The nurse practitioner who saw the victim over the years admitted she never did a pelvic exam on the victim.  She also admitted on the stand that rapes are usually not something they find evidence of unless it was a violent rape and there is trauma or damage done.  There was none of this.

6.  The wife mentions allowing her to stay out late and live a free life (or how ever she puts it).  She admitted on the stand that  the victim was out past curfew one night and she went and found her.  On the way home, the victim was slapped and left with a cut on her face.

 

I had already mentioned that the victims testimony was hard to believe at times and yes, there was a claim of rapes 3-5 times a week for 5  years.  He was not charged with that many and was not found guilty of that many. Had it not been for the phone call and other pieces of evidence, he would be free.  We only actually used parts of her testimony when other evidence collaborated something she said.  (Like the hotel receipts  from a hotel a few blocks from his house where she claims an attack.  Why woudl a man get a hotel room just a few blocks from his home)

I personally see this statement as a way to get her husband more support since obviously the people he had come to court did not do the trick.  He is the bread winner in the family and her financial livelyhood is at stake.

We will see on August 7th if the Judge agrees with us or not.........

 

 

Dance Zone is offended that the wifes name was mentioned yet HE is the one posting the victims name everywhere....  Can you say hypocrite?????

Can't wait till August 7th,

Allysma, plz keep updating.

Why people are partial regarding Ajay's wife name and the victim's name mentioned in this thread? If everything is already in the communication mainstream, it is normal to know who his wife is and who is not?

 

I find some of the arguments by Allysma fishy. I don't want to go over all the details, and I don't have sympathy for Ajay to spend hours here defending him. But I live in SF Bay Area. The general perception here is that people in Sacramento or central valley have no sympathy for foreigners or people of foreign origins. They are jealous of foreigners who they think are superwealthy and live in bay area. If you want to convict a foreigner, go to those areas.

These jurors are also willing to believe anything-- a foreigner , who doesn't believe in their own religion, must be someone decadent. Can he rape his own daughter? Yes, sure why not, he is a damn foreigner, a nonwhite, a Hindoo. Never mind the victim repeatedly lied about it, a phone call is enough to convict someone, so much so that he would spend 70+ years in jails. In other words, the crime committed  by Ajay is something in the league of homicide. This man is suddenly deemed so dangerous to the society that he would be better dead (or inside the jail) than outside. Never mind he was out of the jail for six years prior to this conviction. I am surprised the jury didn't decide to hang him, given America's capital punishment rate. Since it costs 50+ thousand dollars per year per inmate in this country, and california is budget constrained, that would have been a better solution if the juries were a bit well educated. (btw, I wonder how educated was the jury. I doubt they have some decent degrees.)

I don't come here to defend Ajay. But I find the evidences  iffy. "Either Ajay or his relatives" tried to block the girl's reentry in the USA[but we send "ajay" to gallows], "we convicted him on the basis of a phone call" (never mind we don't understand his language and it was through translation), Ajay was behind the breakup in her relationship ("what kind of boyfriend is that? At least, it is the news for me for someone to break up affairs because of adopted father.") and the result: a man would go to jail for 70-250 years for this. There are probabilities alive that this man was too strict a father (like all Madhesi fathers in Nepal), the jurors were too racists to even try to see truth, too biased to believe worst about everything, the girl was too young to understand the consequences of her action on others ( like in that movie, Atonement ).

Well, hail America, let's enjoy it as long as we are not in jail. This is where a Nepali always dreams to come in. I think Nepali textbooks should discuss every angle of this case to have a lesson about an entry into a new culture...

Pire, I am not racist.  Had the defendant been white, green, red, orange, or an alien from outer space, we would have had the same verdicts if the evidence was the same.  Although, I am not sure how we could have been racist against him but not the victim since she was also from Nepal...  The defense had their own translator there and with the exception of one word, he testified the translation was correct.  The word in question was "kiss" versus "sex".

As far as the educational background of any juror, obviously the defense attorney thought we were intelligent enough to be on that jury. It is idiotic for you to say that we are jealous of foreigners.  I have my own education and career. 

Pire, you are very wrong to bring up juror as racist and prejudice etc. They did what the American court system supposed to do.

Ajay was convicted of multiple counts of charges which apply additional sentences. If you dig the case a little bit you will find that Ajay and his family/relatives went too far which back fired themselves.....

Allysma,

I said there are "probabilities alive" (meaning some chance) that jurors were too racist to believe worst about a man with different background. That is the general perception regarding white people living in inland America, and you can talk to any law school professor about it (It is pretty much statistically verified stuff. There is a rich literature about how home courts decide against alien firms/individuals in the USA.) I don't want to be seen defending Ajay--he might be the bastard-- but it is stretching my credulity to believe that a man is sent to jail for 70-250 years for  'one sentence' he made during a phone call (according to you). There is no semen test to prove rape, in fact, no trauma on victim or so I hear. In a lot of civil societies, a phone call, or statement made during the heated conversation, is inadmissible as an evidence. In any case, if you want to send someone to jail for such a long time, you really need something concrete. May be there is this schadenfreude, as Germans say, a satisfaction in "proving" a shocking crime-- you can tell your kids/friends about a man , a foreigner you convicted because he god damn raped his own daughter (oh what a decadent man! but at least he was not our type)-- and it is even better that he happened to be a son of a scientist, and an engineer in state agency.

Like all other educated Nepalese, I won't respond to the appeal by Ajay's families. There is no glory in associating yourself with a convict, and I am an egotistical person anyway. There is always a positive probability that Ajay might be what he is convicted of,so why take a risk? I haven't read all testimonies, nor do I have time. I am not like  Emilo Zola to take up the case for a convict Dreyfuss. But I see a distinct pattern in American jury system now more than ever, and this is something I will keep in mind: that these people are willing to believe anything said about a Nepali.

[PS: Just because a defense lawyer is satisfied doesn't mean it is all right. A significant fraction of people in this country are sentenced to jail or capital punishment partly because their lawyer is too incompetent. I am not familiar with the case or lawyer, and if you want to defend something, please don't make reference to him. I am approaching this case purely from outsider's point of view. Despite its democratic nature, jury system is not without flaw, composition of jury matters a lot and it is reasonable to start with that assumption, no?]

 

First they try to rape the character of already raped victim, and then disclose the name of the victim, and then say "respect" and please do not disclose the name of rapist's wife, who already disclosed her name publicly by her emails as stated above, and they bring the race factors; questions the educational background of jurors, and bring the jealousy as the influencing factors. 

Lakhe,

First of all, I wouldn't disclose the name of the victim. I was shocked that the girl's name was published. That is inexcusable.

Now, let's talk fact. What is wrong in questioning education? I am also questioning other stuffs.

Look, I knew a Nepali in in-land : he was arrested after he perused objectionable website. Arresting him is fine, but what shocked me was the university immediately fired him. Now, I thought they would wait until proven guilty. Shouldn't they? It showed to me that foreigners , in some cases, dont' get benefit of doubt. And it is hard for us to support that guy. Which Nepali would want to support a guy caught watching porno?

So, sure there are stuffs in American jury systems that are prone to bias. Questioning a rationale behind the  decision reached by a group of jurors and speculating the motive behind it in a website shouldn't constitute a crime,should it? It is just an inquiry; the answer for it is voluntary. We are not in an era where we can inquestionably lynch people due to our suspicion. To me, it is a good sign that a juror is willing to discuss her decision process in this case here; this shows she is confident about how she arrived in a decision. However, to be 'confident' is different from to be 'right', and I am just trying to see her mind, and her decision process. Just relax, and stop whining, and act like a mature person. What transpire here today can be useful to alot of others in future.

Just because some people were biased against minorities some time does not mean that all the people will be biased against them all the time. It's not me who started whining about race, jealousy and what not as a possibility and a biasness from jurors; please stop seeing everyone as your reflection. In this case, the justice is also being served to the minority. 

Lakhe,

First of all, I have to clarify that I don't even know this guy Ajay, and wouldn't have written a single word if he had been sent to jail for 15 years or so. It is the length of sentence that aroused curiosity in me. I am approaching it from purely blank: I know American jury system has flaws, I know that in America justice is often skewed against people of different background, and American jail system is overcrowded (five time more people per capita are inmates here than in the rest of the world). Overzealous jury, residual bitterness against successful and wealthy foreigners is a fact here and even in other countries. America is a transforming country: it is trying to be civilized, it is trying to a cosmopolitan country which can be an example for the rest of the world--but at the same time, America has a brutal past. 19 million out of 20 million Native Indians were killed and their land grabbed, but American media used to portray these same Red Indians as villains until very  late. (see Hollywood westerns). Lynching was rampant in America, Chinese , who were shanghaied from China to be slave were treated shabbily, denied rights and until recently, say in 1992 in black riot in LA, race relations have been poor. It is reflected everywhere, and more so in a jury that is randomly drawn from the population. But to be fair to this country, every country has blood in its history, and all of us are trying to improve. It is out of my curiosity about American system that I am forced to ask: what was the process of deliberation and decision making that made a jury send a man to jail for 70 ~250 years? Look, society doesn't change over night--as Latin saying goes, natura non facit saltum (nature doesn't make a jump)-- and one can't automatically accept lack of racism as an established truth. Rather, it might be wise to approach any (jury based) decision making as a process that is influenced by the thoughts of people of different background, each with their own view, reaching a decision that is a function of their background, the evidence they saw, and their ability to process the informations they have. As an aspiring lawyer living in Bay Area, I now have a passing interest in this case and hence this inquiry.

"Just because some people were biased against minorities some time does not mean that all the people will be biased against them all the time"

Lakhe, how do you know this is not the time? I am just curious. As far as I am concerned, it could be the exact time when a bias is occured.

"I don't believe at all that jurors were "racist" as you're accusing them"

I am glad you believe that way. I didn't accuse them of being racist, I said there is positive probability that they are racist. Now, it is not a definite sentence, but a man is a package of lots of emotions. It is said by psychologists that our thoughts are parliament within, and they swing; sometimes some emotions win, say our quest for fairness wins, sometimes other emotions win; the same man can be fair at a time and racist at another time. Since we are locking up a man for the rest of his life, it is only fair for us to make sure that we are certain that the crime is committed beyond doubt. That fair , clean, rational minds were gathered to deliver the justice.

"The dramatic change came only after this one sentence with the rapist having sex with his adopted daughter"

This is where I am surprised. No evidence, but one sentence said in a heated conversation established beyond doubt that a man deserves to be in jail. And that sentence was about "consent", right? Is this the whole proof behind this lengthy sentencing?

I hope justice has been served; it always feels good to believe that truth prevails in the world and Ajay got what he deserved. But what is wrong in finding out how jurors thought, especially when the juror here is so keen to share her views?

 

 

gaaule ho, kati mukha-mukh garchhau? jati baajhe pani hune kuro bhaihaalchha jasari ni. lets just hope that justice will be served, in total fairness.

Pire

I just want to clarify that we as a jury have NOTHING to do with the sentence.  We are not told what the punishment may be and we are told to not even thin kabot the punishment while deliberating.  I did not fond out what the sentence may be until I read the article in the newspaper.  I have since learned that there are other panels (correctional personnel,  the lawyers from both sides, and the Judge) who actually determine what the punishment will be.  This has yet to be determined and will be made known on August 7th.  I will again find out from the newspaper what the punishment will be.  We then of course have the appeal process where the defense attorney will appeal the decision and a Judge (same one or different, I have no idea) will look at everything and decide if everything is correct or wrong. 

As I have mentioned multiple times before, if Judge Fall decides that we were wrong and he disagrees with our verdicts, he can begin the process to reverse it.  I know that he has much more evidence than we saw or heard so it will be up to him ultimately...  I doubt it will happen, but we will see....

Thanks Allysma. I see the status better now. I am sure you did your job fairly--your willingness to talk about the case and defend it here says that much. As we Hindus say-- as long as your conscience is clear, even if you are wrong, you didn't sin.

One thing strikes me about this case: perhaps the girl was vengeful because her boyfriend left her ("wrath of scorned girl" --as they say--is unlimited) and she attributed the breakup to Ajay since he strongly objected to her unrestrained lifestyle like any conservative Hindu father does, even though the boy likely left her because he didn't like her. The fact that she was lying most of the time in the court, about abortions and so on (if I understand correctly) should have been heavily weighted against her. She seems instable: but was her instability due to being repeatedly molested by her father? If yes, then, Ajay deserved what he got; if no, then jurors has a lifetime to regret about sending a protective father to jail for the rest of his life.

It appears that some people here needs to see a VIDEO tape of them having sex in order to believe the truth. If your daughter accused you of having sex with you, what will be the first word coming out of your mouth? And the 2 language being spoken showing 2 different story, it is obvious that Ajay was hiding something, maybe accepting subconsciously about the relationship. Your mouth can lie, but your consciousness and your brain never lies, it is not a rocket science. Had he NOT done it, there will be a different emotion. If you expect that jurors should have made the decision only if they had seen it through their eyes, there will never be and end to the this. I think the "beyond reasonable doubt" was already there, even in the smallest form of human emotion. Things cannot be solved all the time like in the CSI episode. Why did he had to hide the situation during the phone conversation to his wife?

But there is definitely more questions as more information are poppin out. The victim claims that A raped her 550-750 times. Allysma, is this the right number that was presented to the court? That seems very high- what exactly was Peggy doing, was she blind? I would imagine few time a year for a married man with his wife at the same house. If you believe that number is possible, then you need to look into Ajay's relationship with Peggy. Are they even married, living together? There are lots of unanswered questions listening to the supporters from both the sides as posted here.

Please stop with the racism....you are not making your points any better.

Pire

The break up with the boyfriend was the final nail.  She had moved away from him and thought she was free.  He hunted down the boyfriend and began emailing, calling, and texting him until the boyfriend had enough and basically decided he wanted nothing to do with her or her family.  Ajay had NEVER met this boy in person. She never lied about the abortions.  She admitted to having them.  During the infamous phone call when she brought up the fact that she had not disclosed to her counselor that Ajay was the father, he never adnitted or denied being the father.  If your daughter even mentioned you were the father of her children and you knew you weren't, wouldn't you automatically deny it?  He was not found guilty of the pregnancies (1 was not guilty and 1 was a hung jury). 

Please remember that the court trial was 5-10 years after the abuse began.  Some of us actually thought she was lying through a lot of the testimony.  It was not until later when we realized that her time frames were really messed up and the details were just not as clear as we would hope.  Come to find out, many things that we thought she lied about there was evidence it had happened.  For example:  she claimed to be raped at a local motel in a certain month, come to find out, there were receipts from that exact motel  only in a different month than she remembered with Ajay's name and signature on them.  The motel was only a few blocks from their home so why check in?

It was apparent to us that she was embarrassed about having to talk about sexual things in a room full of strangers staring at her and she was extremely nervous.  Due to the time frame, she had also forgetten many details.

The comments in the phone call were anything but "heat of the moment".  This was a 45 minute call where he goes back and forth telling her to go the police and then telling her not to go to the police...

It was claimed 2 to 3 times a week and always when the wife was away.  She had a job that she left very early in the morning and that was when most of them happened.  He was not charged with 500-750 counts.  If I remember the actual numbers correctly, it was 20 or 25 counts of actual rape and then there were the charges of rape against a minor, and 20-25 counts of another sexual assault.  There were counts of attempting to dissuade a witness.  He was actually charged with 94 counts.  he was found guilty of 76 counts, not guilty on 13, and hung on 5.  Basically, the way they were done, he was charged with the same set of crimes per time frame (3-6 months).  In the end, we believed that it was possible for him to rape her 4-5 times a year for 5 years.

Allysma,

Is Ajay getting charged with a RAPE or with the Incestuous Relationship with his daughter?


Like Bob Marley pointed out, The expression from the father should be " What the fk are you talking about" as soon as the daughter was talking about having sex. This does validate that there indeed was a sexual relationship.

Did the Jury ever analyze the scenario where Ajay and his daughter could have had consensual relationship the whole time until the boyfriend breakup situation came up, and thus the sour relationship turning into a RAPE situation???

As we dig more into this, i am getting an odor of a consensual sex turning into RAPE accusations.


Sid

Pire,

Ajay has been living in this country since he was 13 and is married to Peggy (a white women if I'm not wrong), what exactly do you think he will have "conservative Hindu" father inside of him?